Blue Spruce: Why it's Struggling & How to Help

Jay Judd from Davey's East Denver office shares information about the blue spruce tree, including how factors such as climate change and native pests are impacting these trees. 

In this episode we cover:  

• What is the blue spruce? (:43)
• How is Colorado's climate affecting the blue spruce? (1:25)
• Is the blue spruce still being planted? (4:55)
• What other issues is the blue spruce dealing with? (6:46) (8:43) (10:19)
• Should you cut down a blue spruce if it is infected? (7:50)
• What other trees can you plant in Colorado? (11:19)
• How Jay got into his job and how he works with clients (12:44) (13:08)

To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code.

To learn more about the blue spruce, read our blog, Do I Have a Blue Spruce Tree?

Watch this Talking Trees video to learn how you can effectively take care of your trees in Colorado here, How To Care For Trees In Colorado.

Connect with Davey Tree on social media:
Twitter: @DaveyTree
Facebook: @DaveyTree
Instagram: @daveytree
YouTube: The Davey Tree Expert Company
LinkedIn: The Davey Tree Expert Company 

Connect with Doug Oster at www.dougoster.com. 

Have topics you'd like us to cover on the podcast? Email us at podcasts@davey.com. We want to hear from you!

Transcript

Doug Oster: Welcome to The Davey Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees. I'm your host, Doug Oster. Each week, our expert arborists share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more. Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here at the Talking Trees podcast, we know trees are the answer. This week, I'm joined again by Jay Judd. He's a district manager at the East Denver office, The Davey Tree Expert Company, and today is one of our series that we do on certain species. We're going to start off with the blue spruce, which is Colorado's state tree. Jay, welcome back to the show. How are you?

Jay Judd: Good. Thanks, Doug.

Doug Oster: Tell me about the blue spruce.

Jay Judd: Yes, so the spruce is definitely a tree that's common in the landscape on the Front Range. This tree's native to higher elevation. The mid-1800s, they found it on Pikes Peak and sort of brought it down to a lower elevation where it does okay, I think, each year. As it gets warmer and warmer and drier and drier, that's changing a little bit, but the Colorado blue spruce is also the state tree of Utah. I don't know if you knew that.

Doug Oster: I did not. Let's talk a little bit about the climate and how it's affecting the blue spruce. I guess like everywhere else, warmer and warmer, drier and drier. Out in the east here, most of the east, we've been in at least moderate drought, in some cases severe, in other cases extreme drought. How has that affected what's going on out there, and how has that affected the tree?

Jay Judd: Yes. Each year we've gotten hotter and drier, like I mentioned before. For us, when we are seeing moisture, because it's out west, a drier area, we're a mile closer to the sun than most places back east. When we get these rains, the monsoons, the heavy snows in spring or winter, this stuff evaporates before it makes its way down to the roots of the trees. Watering programs are really popular. We do deep root watering on all the trees. Fertilization programs also to help them along. Parking lot trees in particular, that root systems are pretty covered, aren't getting much natural water at all, are seeing the biggest issues when it comes to the blue spruce.

When you have a tree that's stressed out, it isn't going to be able to deal with the insects, diseases as well as a tree that's obviously healthy. With the blue spruce, we have an issue with the spruce ips beetle out here. This specific beetle bores in, if you have a tree that's dried out, its natural defenses to push that insect out isn't there. Doing secondary topical applications with insecticides to stop these insects from getting in, laying their eggs and those babies chewing their way out, which inevitably is part of what kills the tree.

That, and also a fungus on the trees. Everyone's familiar with the classic blue staining from some of these boring insects in the evergreens. Without the tree having the ability to push them out, we're relying only on insecticides. When you're relying on just insecticides, everyone needs to be spraying. That's where you are starting to see a decline, at least in the metro area of the spruce.

Doug Oster: What's the mature size of a blue spruce?

Jay Judd: For Colorado, up in the mountains, the blue spruce can get 80 foot tall. At the lower elevation of Denver area, Fort Collins, 50, maybe 60 feet.

Doug Oster: Deep watering and fertilizing on a mature specimen is going to be quite a job.

Jay Judd: Yes, absolutely. This isn't a one and done either. Watering programs could be monthly, especially in winter months. Adding humates, anything that we can do to make the soil a more habitable place for the tree to live in an area that in Denver was nothing but grass, really.

Doug Oster: Now, are blue spruce still getting planted? Is it something that we would plant at a client's place or out there somewhere?

Jay Judd: Oh, absolutely, yes. This is going to be a good windbreak when we get out of the city into these areas that are more of these arid, high desert areas. They plant them all in a row to help protect the house, the yard from the winds. It's a good option for a landscape. They sell them in all different sizes and shapes. They don't have to be a 50-, 60-foot tree. There are dwarf versions, different varieties. They're definitely something to keep in the landscape. There's the appropriate place to be planting these and they need to make sure that they're in that location, somewhere with good sun, full sun, six hours a day. They like to have better drained soil. Like any tree, they have their location.

Doug Oster: My assumption is like a dwarf variety, smaller variety is going to be easier to take care of?

Jay Judd: Yes, absolutely. I think the biggest issue we see with some of these dwarfs is, at least in the Denver area, we start seeing this winter burn. Again, we're closer to the sun here, hot, dry winds. South side of trees can really get affected.

Doug Oster: Jay, whenever I talk to you, talk to somebody from out there, it sounds like a tough place to grow trees.

[laughter]

Jay Judd: Yes, it is and it's getting harder and harder. The mature trees have a lot of competition and less resources. The newer trees have a lot of exposure and it's a lot more difficult for them to get established.

Doug Oster: For our blue spruces out there, what are the other issues that they're dealing with that is bringing on some of this decline?

Jay Judd: Another issue we're seeing more and more with the blue spruce disease-wise is cytospora canker. This isn't something we can control with a magic potion. You're trying to remove the disease from the canopy, and again, increase the health of the tree, fertilization, water, It always comes back to the health. A healthy tree is going to be able to defend itself and be less susceptible to getting these diseases and insects.

Doug Oster: We have the same problem, the same disease here in the east, too. That's the only cure, is just to keep the tree as healthy as possible to fight off the disease?

Jay Judd: Yes, removal of the disease from the canopy is an important part of it. In some cases, if it's caught too late, it could be a tree that just needs to be removed, especially if there's other spruce in the area that don't have the disease yet, that decision might need to be made.

Doug Oster: Now, if you had to remove a spruce like that, that means it has to get off the property. Is that right? Would that disease still be sitting there if you just cut it down? Let's say the client says, "Oh, I'll take care of the wood," but does it need to get out of the area or can it stay?

Jay Judd: Yes, no, good question. We want to get that woody material, the needles, everything off the property. This goes for the Ips beetle also, similar to some of the other boring insects, emerald ash borers, a real hot topic. That wood being moved around or being left in areas can reinfect or infect other trees. Getting it off the property, especially with cytospora canker is very important, yes.

Doug Oster: What else is after these blue spruces out there?

Jay Judd: Yes, we've got esthetic issues with some insects that do more visual harm than health harm. One of my more favorite is the Cooley spruce galls that's caused by a very small insect that puts a cocktail blast into the new growth and causes what looks like a pine cone growth where then it expands slowly. You can see this in different stages on the tree. Its little babies are inside there and that acts as a cocoon for them to grow. It's really unique and a lot of people don't realize what they're looking at because it looks like a pine cone and my daughters love picking them off the trees on our property where they're on our spruce.

Doug Oster: If that's on a big spruce, what is the treatment, or is there a treatment?

Jay Judd: There is, we do an insecticide topical spray on that. That's not going to get rid of the preexisting galls, they're there, but that can help minimize future galls. Like any infestation, if you get enough, it can stress out the tree along with other factors. On its own, it's not going to kill a tree.

Doug Oster: On a small tree, could you just remove the galls? Would that work?

Jay Judd: Yes, but the galls themselves aren't hurting anything. Again, it's more of the aesthetic, so it's inhibiting new growth is basically what's happening.

Doug Oster: Well, it sounds like those blue spruces are under attack out there. Is there anything else that's bothering them?

Jay Judd: Yes, we've got-- there are spider mites, again, sort of along the lines of the galls. Alone, these can't kill the trees, but spider mites are going to cause stippling that injures the needles in conjunction with cytospora canker or just drought stress in general. The combination could because a tree to decline pretty quick. One thing that the spruce have that pines don't have is a nice waxy coating. When it comes to the pines out here and desiccation, we do put oils on those needles in the winter to help hold that moisture in. Spruce naturally have that waxy coating. If you do have a needle-feeding insect like a spider mite, they could damage that waxy coating and then you could get more desiccation.

Doug Oster: Jay, if I lived out there and I was listening to this podcast, I would not want to plant a blue spruce. What would you tell a client? Plant a smaller one, it'll be okay. If they do get worried, what would be something else that you would think about planting that would be-- could grow in the same location?

Jay Judd: I would tell them, wait till you hear about the other tree.

[laughter]

Doug Oster: All right, okay, I'll put in my blue spruce. I'll put in my blue spruce.

Jay Judd: Yes, when it comes to evergreens, the junipers do a good job out here at a little higher elevation where some of the metro areas, they are native. Some of the pines, Ponderosa pines are native at a little higher elevation than the Denver area. They deal with the environment, the climate and the drought much better than some of these spruce. We're introducing trees that do okay in the Denver area. We want to have an urban forest here. There's a ton of different benefits and every tree is going to have their own issue and they can be treated and taken care of to make sure that they live a long, happy life.

Doug Oster: I know we've talked about it before, but refresh my memory. How did you get into this? Why is this right for you?

Jay Judd: I started contracting out for the Forest Service in Flagstaff, Arizona 25 years ago and realized it was a heck of a lot better than working IT. The outdoors just calls to me, I guess.

Doug Oster: As a district manager, I know that you spend a lot of time out there with clients. Discuss your relationship with them and how you have to advise them. I'm the guy that's listening to this podcast saying, "Oh gosh, after hearing that, I don't want a blue spruce." You're telling them there's worse choices, you could do okay with a blue spruce. Tell me a little bit about that, about working with the clients.

Jay Judd: Yes, I think educating the clients. Most people don't know much about trees. That's why we're on the property. They respect our ideas and opinions about what's going to help out their property in that certain area of their property where they want a tree or a shrub. Maybe they really shouldn't be trying to plant something there. Other options, other areas that they could plant different trees or shrubs.

Doug Oster: Do your girls know all about trees?

Jay Judd: For three and six, they know a heck of a lot more than most.

Doug Oster: All right, Jay, great to talk to you again. Thanks for schooling us on the blue spruce. It's going to be interesting to see in the next 10, 20 years on both coasts how things go here with our trees. As always, thanks for your time. I appreciate it.

Jay Judd: Absolutely, thank you, Doug.

Doug Oster: Nice to see Jay passing along his knowledge to clients and family alike. Now, tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees Podcast from the Davey Tree Expert Company. I'm your host, Doug Oster. Do me a big favor, subscribe to the podcast, you'll never miss one of these great shows. Got an idea for an episode? Maybe a comment. There's a couple different ways to reach us. Send us an email to podcasts@davey.com. That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T-S @ D-A-V-E-Y.com. You can also click the link at the end of our show notes. You can also click the link at the end of our show notes to text us a fan mail message. Your ideas might be on a future podcast and we'd love to hear from you. As always, we like to remind you on the Talking Trees Podcast, trees are the answer.

[00:15:29] [END OF AUDIO]