How to Save Your Trees Before Starting Backyard Construction Projects

Taylor Judd, sales arborist with Davey's East Denver office, talks about the importance of tree care and preservation before beginning backyard construction projects.

In this episode we cover:

• Late spring Colorado snow (:40)
• How construction projects affect trees (1:55)
• Handling neighbor disputes with trees and construction projects (3:49)
• Dealing with astroturf on trees' roots (6:19) (8:33)
• Brick wall construction and tree roots (10:59)
• Using Phosphonate for tree care (13:38)
• How do Colorado residents take care of their trees (14:58) (16:04)

To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code. 

To learn more about how you can take care of your trees, check out our blog, Tree Care Checklist: How To Keep Trees Healthy This Summer.

To learn more about knowing who owns trees along property lines, watch our YouTube video, Who Owns This Tree.

Connect with Davey Tree on social media:
Twitter: @DaveyTree
Facebook: @DaveyTree
Instagram: @daveytree
YouTube: The Davey Tree Expert Company
LinkedIn: The Davey Tree Expert Company 

Connect with Doug Oster at www.dougoster.com. 

Have topics you'd like us to cover on the podcast? Email us at podcasts@davey.com. We want to hear from you!    

Transcript

Doug Oster: Welcome to the Davey Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees. I'm your host, Doug Oster. Each week, our expert arborists share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more. Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here at the Talking Trees podcast, we know trees are the answer. I'm excited to welcome back Taylor Judd. He's a sales arborist for the East Denver office of the Davey Tree Expert Company. Today, we're going to talk all about backyard construction projects and how they can affect trees. Before we get to that, you know what us Easterners always think about when we think about Colorado is, when are you going to get snow because our snow is over with? I thought I would tease you a little bit about that.

Taylor Judd: Yes, we're going to get snow again, I imagine, probably in a couple weeks. It's usually around Mother's Day. 3 feet at my house last month.

Doug: Wow.

Taylor: There was no plowing with the four-wheeler. It was me trying to dig out my four-wheeler half the time. That was a crazy amount. Yes, I couldn't have left my house even if I tried, even with a four-wheel drive Jeep. 3 feet is just too much.

Doug: One year we had, they called it Snowmageddon. It was 22 inches, and I live up on a mountain. I had no way to get out. Even with my plow, I couldn't plow my way out. I had to dig my way out, three of us. It took like three hours for three of us to dig our way, just to get halfway down.

Taylor: Of course, a road grader comes by and then makes it like a 4-foot, 5-foot drift [unintelligible 00:01:43]

Doug: Yes, that was fun. Then my son locked himself out of the building he was working at. We had to figure out a way to get there and get him back in the building. All right, let's get to work. Let's talk a little bit about construction projects and how they affect trees. How do you interact with that? What is your most common interaction with a construction project related to trees?

Taylor: More often than not, it's after the fact, unfortunately. Typically, when I show up, maybe they're halfway through a project, and it could be something the city is doing, even in the front yard or right-of-ways. There could be a hole dug. Usually, when I get a call is when they notice damage to the roots. They see roots stripped, not cut cleanly. They're wondering, what can we do to try to save the tree? I've had a couple instances, though, where I've been called to meet with a landscaper, whoever is doing the project, and a neighbor.

That's the best way to go about it. There's always going to be some kind of compromise. There's a couple projects that come to mind like a neighbor wants to put an AstroTurf right next to this beautiful 60 to 80-foot oak, right on the property line. As most of us, I think, understand is, roots can go past that drip line. It's well into the neighbor's yard, so it's definitely going to have an impact. Typically, the neighbors can do what they want. Colorado state law, if it hangs over your side, it's your responsibility type thing. We've had a couple good interactions. It's just communication from the start. Before you start a project or anything, call at least a Davey Arborist. That's a free estimate, just to get an idea of what you're up against. Sometimes it's better to remove the tree versus creating a hazard, removing half the root system. Then there's stability and anchoring issues.

Doug: Boy, when you're talking about neighbors, that can get dicey. Like you said, okay, laying down AstroTurf next to that oak tree, and the oak tree is on the other guy's property, other person's property. Do you have to compromise? That's more than an arborist should have to do.

[laughter]

Taylor: Yes, probably. An old-time client, been with us for 20 years, so I was willing to go above and beyond and discuss with the neighbor as well as the landscaper. What we ended up doing and what I wanted the client that owns the tree to understand is that when they put in AstroTurf, they actually have to go below grade and compact that whole layer where the AstroTurf is going over. If you can imagine 8 inches below grade, 90% of the roots are within the top 18 inches of soil. It definitely had an impact. One way to mitigate that, though, within the turf, we discussed with landscaper along the drip line area, these little plugs.

We could still fertilize, lift up these little plugs and deep root water, deep root fertilize because the high pressure is really what's needed when compaction-- Erosion can cause compaction, but usually, it's from construction or things of that nature. That was the compromise there. The best solution is don't put an AstroTurf. Why not put down some mulch? If you imagine a red oak and those giant leaves, there's no chance that they were getting a lawn back there. It was all dirt. Ideally, and I try to talk them into this as well, is some gorilla hair mulch.

Something that's soft and won't hurt the kids walking around barefoot. That's real fibrous material. They're real adamant about the AstroTurf. Putting those plugs in, I think, will help quite a bit just so we can access the roots and do those services because over half the root system was on the neighbor's side. It worked out great. There was really no hiccups or anything like that. It was a compromise, which it almost always is. More often than not, you don't get those opportunities because it's after the fact.

Doug: Is that something that you'd have done before or did you just figure that out? That's brilliant. I wouldn't even know what to do if somebody put AstroTurf over half the roots on a tree.

Taylor: It was partially talking to senior arborists that have dealt with AstroTurf before. That's when he explained to me that 8 inches below grade, they're going to have to compact a layer, and it's going to be concrete under there before they put the AstroTurf on top. Yes, I just went with his knowledge, and then just set up a meeting first with the client and the neighbor. Then another time with the client, the neighbor, and the landscaper so there's some shared understanding there. Yes, that was my first time going about it last year. That's not the only example I have because, oh, I must have had three or four of those meet-and-greets with landscapers and neighbors. Really, that was my experience last year. It's usually what the neighbor is doing, and it's always a bordering mature tree. A lot of folks don't understand that, the whole drip line thing, especially with mature trees going out past that drip line. If you can help it, try not to compact the soil within that drip line at all.

Doug: I just want to mention this. I think you're going to change your job title to sales arborist/mediator.

Taylor: Right? Yes. People need to understand, especially with that red oak example, that is a solid 80-plus-year-old tree. Shades both the client's and the neighbor's house. That would have been pretty detrimental to remove that tree. We wanted basically to start off the conversation with, "Hey, this tree is, you could look at it as partially yours. It's right on the property line. If this tree was removed, could you imagine how hot it would be in this backyard? You wouldn't be able to enjoy it at all." The desert high plains here, they say the dry heat. At the same time, we're closer to the sun. I think it's way more intense than where I'm from, like central Illinois.

Doug: Before we go on to the next example, can you explain to me what size those tubes are and how deep do they have to go, and what you use them for that are in the AstroTurf?

Taylor: Yes, those plugs. It's PVC, and they're approximately 3 inches in diameter and about, oh, 8 inches long. Just long enough so that we can get that spade, the feed gun in there, and fracture the soil underneath. They did that in approximately, if you imagine like a half-moon shape around the drip line, put about five plugs in there so we can access the majority of the root system. We tried to place the plugs in line with the red oaks root flare. Seeing the taper from the root flare, try to put them in line with them. The client had to understand that we're probably going to have to do more services to reduce that amount of compaction because the backyard, they probably put in maybe an eighth of an acre worth, or quarter acre even of AstroTurf. Essentially, the whole root system of that oak on that side.

Doug: I bet you the client was over the moon that you were able to do that to figure that out. I'm still blown away by that Taylor.

Taylor: Yes, and he was very appreciative. He's definitely going to be working with us and doing whatever he can to keep that tree going because what happened is not ideal. I am not a fan of AstroTurf by any means. I get the low maintenance side of it, but it really has, on mature trees especially, a really, really bad impact.

Doug: Again, before we move on, I'm just going to say AstroTurf, give me a break.

Taylor: Right. Yes. I honestly don't understand it, understand the benefits [unintelligible 00:10:38] Especially, this is essentially I mentioned that I didn't want the kids getting hurt by putting thick mulch down but that gorilla hair mulch is soft and fibrous. When I was playing football I played on a AstroTurf field, you want to talk about the worst burns I've ever gotten just falling down on that stuff.

Doug: Okay, let's move on.

Taylor: You could go all day about AstroTurf. [unintelligible 00:11:04] 

Doug: I know. What's your next example?

Taylor: Okay. This is probably 50-foot, 60-foot Colorado blue spruce on the border property line, and the neighbor wanted to put in essentially, a brick retaining wall only about 5 feet from the trunk of this blue spruce. One of the conversations we had beforehand was where are these footers going to go for this wall which was like the main thing. Somewhat of the compromise there was playing close attention, once again looking at the root flare of that spruce. They're like, "Okay, these large anchoring stability routes are going to be somewhat in line with that, so avoiding putting furthers in those areas I think will have less impact."

That's what the landscaper ended up doing. They had experience with it before as far as mitigation for not cutting out the stability roots or anything like that. They ended up doing it. Let's see, they also made clean cuts to the roots. That's another thing I forgot to mention. More often than not when you see a construction project you just see tears and just ripped-out roots. They made proper pruning cuts to the root system so that would have a less impact. At the same time, we still were worried about it, so we ended up doing a phosphonate trunk spray.

We're doing that a couple times a year because that product it's known as a fungicide, but I'm convinced it actually accelerates response growth to wounds and we use that same product for diseased trees. Trees that fireblight, pears, crabapples. We also use it for trees that experience severe storm damage and root injury, to accelerate-- When you see a pruning cut, that ring of wood that's surrounding that wound, basically, we want to accelerate that so it compartmentalizes and closes it off. It was more than just discussing with the landscaper about that, but more so with the client, like, "Hey, we'll do everything we can. I know there's going to be some impact, but we've done about the best compromise we can."

Doug: The only thing, when I looked at the topic, that I thought of, I was only thinking about big machinery, compacting. I never thought about all these other projects and stuff that's involved in this.

Taylor: Right? Yes.

Doug: It's really fascinating. Then what you talked about there, what is it called again?

Taylor: Phosphonate.

Doug: Yes. I'm hearing that more and more when I do the podcast. It seems to be becoming something that's important for arborists to use.

Taylor: Yes. One of the technical advisors, Sarah Ruark, she turned me on to that, as well as some arborists here that have seen the benefits of it year after year. I think it's one of those treatments that we still haven't quite figured out. I know there's a lot of research going along and trying to figure out all the benefits, Trunk scars from sun scald, that's another treatment that we'll use it for. It's usually something where even after we prune a disease tree, honey locust with Thyronectria canker, remove all the dead infected material that we can, and then we do the phosphonate spray. Try to compartmentalize that decay, that fungus.

Doug: Now, it seems to me in those two examples, everyone was pretty cooperative.

Taylor: Yes.

Doug: They all had the same goal in mind. Does it not go that way sometimes? That's what I would worry about.

Taylor: Actually, I've been lucky. I haven't ran into that. I would say the folks out here in Colorado, they love the trees. I would say most people understand that it's a austere environment for trees in general, so you should do everything you can to try to preserve, especially the mature trees because the growth rates out here are just puny. Compared to back East, ash trees, they say it can get 12 to 16 inches of growth a year. I don't really see that out here. Everything seems a little stunted. I would say more folks are definitely wanting to preserve what they have because they just realized that if they replant the success rate in Colorado is quite a bit lower than the rest of the US or at least the Eastern US.

Doug: That's really positive. That's really a positive thing that people are thinking that way. That all the work that you've done, you've encountered basically positive reaction to how do we do this so that it's great for the tree?

Taylor: Yes. Then I had, well, it was earlier this year, I have another example. This is actually nothing to do with a neighbor, but a client that has a mature silver maple in the backyard. You imagine a big concrete patio deck, some lawn in between, and then the large silver maple that spreads across like three yards. This is one of those after-the-facts, and I wish you would have called me before, but when I show up, I see a skid steer going back and forth over this silver maples root system, over and over and over. A mini skid, but still plenty heavy-tracked vehicle.

It definitely put compact in those roots. Then the solution for that, before this, I was like, "Hey, you should have given me a call. We have plenty of mulch that we can give to you for free, pretty much. It would just be the charge to dump it. Then you could have the landscapers folks spread it around, but a good solid 6 to 8 inches of mulch before that skid steer started run across, and plywood if you want to go above and beyond, would definitely reduce the compaction there." Yes, I guess before you start a project and you're using heavy equipment, put down a thick layer of mulch that'll help distribute that weight.

Doug: Then it sounds to me in general, call your arborist well before these projects, these are going on. You know they're going on, you see whether it's a neighbor or your own construction project, you know they're coming up, get it ahead of time, right? That's important.

Taylor: Yes, definitely, because once the damage has been done, it's really hard for mature trees to recover, in general. As far as times of year to do it, luckily, this was early spring. Actually, it's better if you're going to do this kind of projects, actually to do it in early spring. Winter would be ideal, but I understand with the weather factors there. Probably the worst time to do these kind of projects, late summer, for sure. The heat, you're drying out those roots. Avoid, if you can, doing construction projects in late summer.

Doug: That is another great point. I want to thank you again, Taylor. It was great to talk to you again. I hope you don't get any snow, but I'll be thinking about you when I see it on the news because, out here in the East, we'll be like, "Can you believe they're getting snow on Mother's Day? This is unbelievable."

Taylor: [laughs] Right? Yes. As far as the trees, we really do some probably heavier thinning than you're used to seeing back east because of the snow. A lot of long-end reduction because more often than not, it's that branch that sticks way beyond the rest of the canopy that is the one that breaks out. Yes, we'll see.

Doug: All right, Taylor, thanks again. I know we'll be talking again soon. That was just great stuff. I like talking to you because I learned so much. Really, I didn't understand everything related to the construction with trees, and that really cleared things up for me. I want to thank you again.

Taylor: No, thanks for having me. That was a good time talking with you.

Doug: I think that AstroTurf project was pretty spectacular. Great job, Taylor. Now, tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees podcast from the Davey Tree Expert Company. I'm your host, Doug Oster. Do me a favor, subscribe to the podcast so you'll never miss one of our interesting shows. Have an idea for an episode, maybe a comment? Send us an email at podcasts@davey.com. That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T-S at D-A-V-E-Y.com. As always, we like to remind you on the Talking Trees podcast, trees are the answer.

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