Did You Know Salt Can Damage Your Property? Here's How to Stop it

Cindy Grady, regional business developer in Minnesota, talks about the affect salt can have on your landscape and plants and possible alternatives available to property owners.

In this episode we cover:  

• Smart Salting Certification from the Minnesota Pollution Control Agency (0:52)
• Salt's impact on water sources (2:03)
• Alternatives to salt (3:09), (13:52)
• Salt's impact on plants (5:13)
• How properties can responsibly use salt (5:47)
• How to remediate the impacts of salting your landscape (9:27)
• Gypsum applications (10:57)
• Client perspectives on smart salting (12:44)
• Cindy's work with sustainability (15:28)

To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code.  

To learn more about the way salt can hurt your landscape, check out our blog, How Rock Salt May Be Affecting Your Lawn.

To learn more about ways to protect your plants from salting read our blog, How to Protect Trees from Winter Salt or Rock Salt Damage.

Connect with Davey Tree on social media:
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Connect with Doug Oster at www.dougoster.com. 

Have topics you'd like us to cover on the podcast? Email us at podcasts@davey.com. We want to hear from you!    

Transcript

Doug Ouster: Welcome to the Davey Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees. I'm your host, Doug Oster. Each week, our expert arborists share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more. Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here at the Talking Trees podcast, we know trees are the answer. I'm joined by Cindy Grady. She is regional business developer for the Minnesota Midwest region, part of the Davey business development team, and an ISA-certified arborist. Cindy, thanks for coming back on the show.

Cindy Grady: You're welcome. I'm happy to be here.

Doug: I'm really interested about today's topic and picking your brain about salt in general and how it relates to the environment and to our trees. There is a certification process there for smart salting where you're at, right?

Cindy: There is, yes. The Minnesota Pollution Control Agency has some smart salting certifications, and we are happy to be a part of that program.

Doug: What does that mean? Does that just show people or teaches people how to try and use less salt, or use salt the right way, or not use salt at all?

Cindy: All of the above. It starts by just really informing people how pollutant salt is and that it's a permanent pollutant. They take it from there into teaching how to apply salt based on the conditions, the weather patterns, the event, the road temps, the air temps, all the different pieces that come into your weather event, and then how to handle that based on science, not loaded down just to make sure that there's no slip and falls. You don't have slip and falls if you go based on the science, or if the application rather, is based on science.

Doug: Let's just take a snow event. We salt, then it melts, it rains, it goes into our storm sewers, goes into our rivers. You said that's a permanent thing? Is that right?

Cindy: Yes, it is.

Doug: That's right.

Cindy: Yes. I think that's one of the reasons why they put this smart salting certification together was because many of our lakes are now polluted to the point we can't recover some of them. If we continue down the path, then many of them will be damaged, loss of life within the body of water itself, whether it be plant life or fish or what have you. We've got to be more aware of how salt is applied to our roads and parking lots and sidewalks so that we have as little negative environmental impact as possible.

Doug: How about alternatives? Are there alternatives to just throwing down pure salt?

Cindy: There are. Everything has got its benefits. Sand is an option always, but sand doesn't really impact the slip-and-fall quotient as much as melting and removing that ice. Also, it's quite messy, so many commercial properties don't want to use sand anymore just because it causes such havoc internally.

Doug: Somebody like me, I think I'm doing something better. First off, I don't want to use salt at all, but sometimes I have to. I live on a mountain and the driveway has got a switchback. If cars or trucks, the plumber, or somebody needs to get up the driveway, sometimes I have to put product out. I think I'm doing a better job by using something like a magnesium product, but I know it's still magnesium chloride. Is it better for me to use the magnesium chloride? Am I doing something that's better, or is it the same as using raw pure salt?

Cindy: Yes, it's the same. The magnesium changes the temperature value, not the breakdown necessarily, as much as the chloride does.

Doug: My understanding is I can use less magnesium chloride than I would the pure sodium chloride to get the results I need.

Cindy: Yes, provided the event will dictate the use of the magnesium.

Doug: Right.

Cindy: Yes. How about that?

Doug: Okay, that sounds good. For me, the negatives are certainly considering what's going into the stormwater, but also destroying the driveway or whatever it might be, sidewalk or that sort of thing because it will. Then also, how it's going to affect my trees. I live in a-- I'm on 4 acres of a forest, and I don't want to negatively impact my trees any worse than they already are struggling away with oak wilt and all sorts of other things.

Cindy: Yes, absolutely. That's exactly where it goes. If it doesn't go into the stormwater, it goes into your landscape bed. Any of the plants in there can be impacted by your salt use, regardless of the type of salt you're using or the additives that you have for it, like magnesium.

Doug: Yes. When you're working with these commercial properties, I think it's really got to be a challenge because, again, they're trying to protect themselves from the slip and falls, but also they're thinking, "Geez, I don't want all this stuff going into the storm sewer." Is it just about smart application? Is that what we're talking about? Smart application of a product?

Cindy: It is exactly that. Again, using what is happening as part of your arsenal to how to salt, maybe there's an event that's a 2-inch event, and we know that the road temps are warm enough, air temps are warm enough to allow for melting. We might go ahead and put down a really light salt before the event, for instance, that we know that will be diluted somewhat by the snow. It will prevent the ice from even building up. Then because it's the right amount per that event, then it's less impact on the environment, less impact on the landscaping, certainly on the hardscapes like driveways, parking lot, sidewalks, curb lines, all of that. Everything is reduced when you base it on the event itself and obviously, the time the salt is applied and what kind of salt you use with additives. Unfortunately, there's so many variables that our call is, it's too small to dig into that.

Doug: I'll take it down again to this, my little situation because what you're saying there works here too. I'm looking at the event, and if I can get away with it, I'm going to get the backpack blower, and I'm going to spend two hours in that driveway, but there's not going to be any snow left on. That's 3 inches or less. No one is permitted to drive on the driveway until I do this and get everything off. Then I don't have to use any salt and everybody can get up and down. Now, if we get up to 5 inches, 6 inches, then it's snow blower. In that case, again, depending on the temperatures and actually depends on if the sun's out or not.

This is a hill facing south, one part of the driveway. If I can get the snow blower on that, and even if it's below 30 and the sun comes out, that bottom part of the drive, nature will take care of it. Everything you're saying there can be used for the homeowner too, just to think about it and be smart about it. You don't want to pour a bunch of salt on there. Again, especially we're always talking about our trees, you pour all that salt on the sidewalk and you've got especially young trees on there, you're going to kill them.

Cindy: Yes, absolutely. There will be damage. You're right that any homeowner can use the same common sense practices in salting as if they were certified. No matter what amount of salt you put down, some of it, diluted or not, will land in our stormwaters and will impact our landscaping. The least amount that you can get away with keeping a safe property, whether it's at your home or at your business, is the best approach environmentally anyway.

Doug: Let's say we've got lawn right next to our drive or our sidewalk and we've used salt on that. It's going to look bad. How do we remediate that?

Cindy: There are so many organizations that apply salt in a way that absolutely prevents a slip and fall and kills the turf 2 feet into from the curb line. Then they just expect that that's going to be an expense year after year after year, remove the turf, replace with sod, water in, but that's completely avoidable. That expense does not have to be as part of your budget, whether you're a homeowner or a commercial property manager, or facility manager. We've had wonderful success with gypsum applications in the spring, and depending on how many or how bad the soil is and how bad the turf is after years of salt, you might need a second application, so a spring and a fall application. Just applying it with your spreader every spring tends to remove the salt from the soil.

Doug: How does the gypsum work on remediating the salt?

Cindy: Gypsum oftentimes changes the pH and helps to reduce damage done with the saline in the soil or the chlorine in the soil, and it helps to allow the soil to not become a weed-infested growth habitat only. Now it doesn't burn up the grass seed, it doesn't damage the grass seed, and it allows that turf to thrive. The same thing with your trees and plants. If in the spring, you have to salt, obviously, in many cases, at least in Minnesota, and 90% of the time we have to salt after an event or put some sort of de-icing agent down, you can do heavy water in the spring and help push that chlorine through the soil, and help to free up those roots so that they're not stuck with that salt-crusted soil that's got a terrible pH for growth, doesn't absorb well, water just leaches through it. There are ways to combat an over-salting situation. Say you've got a bad vendor or something that just doesn't understand the science behind how to salt properly, you can break out of that damage if you have an interest in repairing it instead of treating properly.

Doug: That's what I wanted to ask you. What kind of response do you get from people when you're trying to tell them this, or are they coming to you because they want this information? I could just see how some big commercial property has been doing it one way the whole time. Yes, we get the snow off, but we're putting way too much salt on. What's the reaction from clients that you talk to about this?

Cindy: Most clients are very excited to remove that from their budget and to understand that salting doesn't have to be this astronomical expense every year. Some events, yes, will be higher than others based on the event, but as a rule, salting doesn't have to be this major expense followed by a repair expense. Many clients are excited to hear that, didn't know that those things were possible. Several clients are still like, "I don't care. I just want my feet to crunch as long as I don't have a slip and fall."

Doug: Are there any products out there besides sand that you could use on a commercial property or even at a home property that would have a less negative effect on the environment, or basically something with the chloride is the way to melt snow, that's the way it is?

Cindy: Yes, there's a whole region of liquid applications, a whole arena of that from brine to beets, lots of different options in that brine. We're just learning more and more and more every year that there are more options available, more natural options. Some of those are less effective than others. At the same time, if it suits your priority, that's what we want to target is what do you want for your property. We can usually achieve that in any one of those heavy salt. We're not a big sand group, but we could be if that's really what was necessary. Then the liquid applications as well.

Doug: Yes, I'm always looking for something, some way not to use anything, any product. Actually, this season and with the change that we've seen in our winters here in Pittsburgh, I haven't had to use any product in two years, but that doesn't mean that February, I'm not going to have to use product. I wanted to ask you how it feels to be promoting something like this. Helping with sustainability, that must be a good feeling.

Cindy: That's fantastic. It's one of my passionate areas. Me, personally, I absolutely push that as much as I can. Obviously, I will do what the client needs to meet their safety priorities at the office. I will absolutely continue to share with people that there are options that are both environmentally sound and safe for their residents or clients or whoever is using the property. I absolutely adore the sustainability options that are out there. I think that if we get more people like me in this area of expertise or, in salting itself, then the better off we're going to be long-term.

Doug: I'm going to leave it right there. That is awesome. That was great stuff, Cindy. I learned a lot. I love it. This is a good thing. We do have to watch, throwing all that salt around. Thanks for all the information, and it was great to talk to you again.

Cindy: Likewise.

Doug: Tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees podcast from the Davey Tree Expert Company. I am your host, Doug Oster. Do me a big favor, subscribe to the podcast so you'll never miss a show. If you've got an idea for an episode, maybe a comment, we're getting lots of great emails, send us one to podcasts@davey.com. That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T-S at D-A-V-E-Y.com. As always, we like to remind you on the Talking Trees podcast, trees are the answer.

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