Dormant Pruning - Why Prune in the Winter?

Mike Holleran from Davey's Wilmington, Delaware, office talks about why it's beneficial to prune in the winter, when an expert needs to help prune and tips on pruning your own tree. 

In this episode we cover:  

• Benefits of pruning during dormancy (0:34) (9:55)
• Reasons homeowners think their tree needs pruned (1:40)
• Right tree right place (3:21)
• When a homeowner should prune vs when to leave it to an expert (5:05)
• Tools (7:20)
• How to make cuts + serrated saws - replace or sharpen? (8:27)
• What it's like to see trees you've pruned (11:31)
• Benefits of hiring a certified arborist/accredited company (13:22)
• Trees Mike likes planting (15:40)
• Longwood Gardens and Chanticleer (18:13)
• What Mikes gets out of his job (19:15)

To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code.  

To learn more about the benefits of pruning in the winter, read our blog, 5 Reasons to Prune During the Dormant Season.

To learn more about pruning tools, read our blog, 3 Best Tree Trimming Tools to Own. 

Connect with Davey Tree on social media:
Twitter: @DaveyTree
Facebook: @DaveyTree
Instagram: @daveytree
YouTube: The Davey Tree Expert Company
LinkedIn: The Davey Tree Expert Company 

Connect with Doug Oster at www.dougoster.com. 

Have topics you'd like us to cover on the podcast? Email us at podcasts@davey.com. We want to hear from you!

Transcript

Doug Oster: Welcome to the Davey Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees. I'm your host, Doug Oster. Each week, our expert arborists share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more. Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here at the Talking Trees podcast, we know trees are the answer. I'm joined this week by Michael Holleran. He's an assistant district manager for the Davey Tree Expert Company in Wilmington, Delaware. Today, we're talking all about pruning. Mike, when we talk about pruning, why are we doing it this time of the year?

Michael Holleran: Oh, there is a ton of reasons to do dormant pruning, and I'm sure we'll get to quite a few of them. One of the biggest reasons I like it is just the view of the tree. I get a really good view of the branch structure, see if there's any storm damage, any structural defects that need to be dealt with, things that we can't really see with a full canopy of leaves up there.

Doug: Again, for many homeowners, this seems like a strange time to be working on the tree, but there's also disease pressure too, another reason why we do this in the winter, right?

Michael: Absolutely. Things like areas of the country specifically that are affected by oak wilt or things like Dutch elm disease, those things are much easier managed doing the pruning in the wintertime. You don't get that draw from the tree from those insects that spread those diseases.

Doug: When a client says to you, "I need my trees pruned," and you go to the site, what is the first thing you ask them when you're looking up at the trees? Because people often say, "When's the best time to prune something?" but it might not need prune or it might need more pruning than they think.

Michael: Yes, and I think the first thing I do is try and get their perspective. Why did you give us a call? What makes you think that it does need pruning? Frankly, I think there are a lot of times out there where we can be too aggressive with saws in certain circumstances. A tree doesn't always need to be pruned. We need to determine a reason for that before proceeding. Obviously deadwood and things like that are a big reason to call into our office locally, a number of reasons people call for pruning.

Doug: Do you get that a lot where people say, "It needs prune." They just think it needs pruned, but you look at the tree and you're like, "Well, again, why?" They just assume that you have to prune this tree every year.

Michael: Yes, one of the biggest calls I get where sometimes pruning is not the answer is the tree's too big. People think, "Okay, we need to prune this tree because it's getting too big." Most of the time, that is not the case. Unless there is a confliction, a hazard, or something you're trying to avoid over a wire or something like that. Trees are big. It's okay for a tree to get big.

Doug: Let's talk a little bit about that, and we talk about this in the podcast all the time, going back to the planting time of right tree, right place because I know people are asking about pruning when they've planted it in the wrong spot and it's growing into people's space.

Michael: Yes, and that's one of the biggest things I talk about when I'm at an initial consultation for a tree planting. Frankly, when I do garden club presentations and things like that, this is one of the biggest topics I discuss. It is right tree for the right spot. Obviously, if you have overhead wires, which is a very common occurrence where I am in Wilmington, you want to shoot for a smaller tree, redbuds, dogwoods, things that aren't going to get up into those wires.

Certainly, you don't want to plant a large oak right underneath the utility wire. Even more beyond that, say that ship has sailed, that tree is already there, pruning still may not be the right answer. We can do a lot of things with plant growth regulators to slow trees down. If we get to them early, that is much more effective than trying to come in late and hack the top off a tree or something to try and keep it smaller.

Doug: I tell this story every once in a while, but I had a friend that I worked with on TV who brought me in a plant label and said, "I'm going to plant this in a pot." I said, "That's a magnolia. It's going to get 30 feet tall." She said, "Well, I'll just cut off the top." [laughs]

Michael: Yes, we very rarely recommend those topping cuts if ever. That's probably a whole another episode of Talking Trees, but there is a number of reasons not to do those topping cuts.

Doug: Is there a way that we know as homeowners whether we should be doing the pruning or we should have an expert come in? I always say pruning to me is art and science. Not every arborist agrees with that. Talk a little bit about when you guys should be doing the work or when maybe a homeowner could do some of the work.

Michael: Absolutely, if you have to get a loft, I would get a professional to do it. If it is a large tree where you have to be on a rope or in a lift of some sort, absolutely a professional should be doing that. I never recommend doing any pruning from a ladder or from a homeowner's perspective on a rope.

When we're talking about juvenile tree pruning, you could certainly do some things when the trees are smaller. A lot of what I do and a lot of what I think my job is is to educate when I go out and meet with folks. Even though I do this as a profession, I spend a lot of my time teaching folks how to do some of those smaller prunes. Certainly some of those smaller prunes, those juvenile tree prunings where you're removing small deadwood, conflicting limbs, that's something a homeowner could do. Obviously, a consultation from a certified arborist is good to get the basis, but certainly something you could try and tackle yourself.

Doug: I always find it so helpful to have an expert showing me how to prune. No homeowner wants to butcher their trees. You can look at diagrams, but having that expert on-site to show you on a small tree where the cut should be and how the cut should be made is so helpful.

Michael: It really is. One of the couple of the tools that I carry with me when I go out to see clients, just a good pair of hand pruners and a little folding saw. I do a lot of demonstrations on small trees and those really translate from species to species because we're really looking at structural stuff and deadwood stuff this time of year. Yes, I agree with you wholeheartedly. I think my clients do as well, that those hands-on demonstrations are much better than anything you're going to find on the internet.

Doug: Let's talk a little bit about those tools, how important it is for them to be sharp. Then, is there something you need to do with them if you're going from tree to tree? Is there a sterilization process or does that not happen in the winter?

Michael: Yes, it's a little less important in the wintertime, but we still do sterilize. We do that everything from our saws to our hand pruners. If we're making a cut from tree to tree or from diseased wood to uninfected wood, we're going to sterilize those pruners, those saws. Depending on what that is, that could be a spray that you apply to the saw. It could be a little dunk of the hand pruners into something. Sterilization is always a good idea.

Doug: And being sharp, right?

Michael: Absolutely, being sharp. It's trying to cut a steak with a dull knife. You need to make a good, clean cut. You want to make the cut in the appropriate fashion as to not tear bark, not cut into the branch bark collar, all those things that apply really anytime you're doing pruning, certainly apply to dormant pruning as well.

Doug: I want to talk about the right way to make the cut, but I'm just wondering, like I have a pruning saw and it's the serrated teeth. Can I sharpen that? Do I just buy a new blade?

Michael: I just buy a new blade. That is a bear to sharpen. I carry a Felco, little folding saw and they're made for the blades to be replaced. It's unscrew and put a new one in.

Doug: All right, that's good advice. Let's talk about making that cut the right way. A lot of homeowners would think, "Okay, I've been taught that this branch needs to go," and they might just make that one cut right next to the tree. If the branch is big, like you said, that could be tearing the bark off.

Michael: Absolutely, yes, and it really depends. If you're doing small juvenile pruning and it's something you can cut with a pair of bypass pruners and have the other end of the limb in your hand, fine, make that one cut right outside of the branch bark collar. If you are making a larger cut on a larger tree, hopefully those homeowners aren't making those cuts themselves. We do a three-cut process to do that. We're taking off the weight of the stem before we're making that final cut, because if you just try and do that right at the branch bark collar, the weight of the stem as it falls can tear that bark down into the trunk of the tree.

Doug: Are there other advantages to working on those trees during the winter?

Michael: Yes, I think the property, how we can manage the property is a lot better in the wintertime. We don't have the perennials up and blooming like we do in the summertime. A lot of times we go to work on big oak trees or big shade trees and there's tons of hostas and ferns and astilbe and everything planted underneath of these trees. Makes it very difficult to get some of these larger limbs out without doing damage to those smaller tender herbaceous plants.

In the wintertime, that stuff is died back to the ground. You're really not risking the damage there. I also like the fact that we do have the potential for frozen ground. If I need to drive a bucket truck or some other sort of lift onto turf or garden area, if that ground is frozen, a lot less potential for damage there.

Doug: I think we both used to have frozen ground a little bit more often than we do today. We had it last year. In fact, a year ago, we went down to minus, I think, 16 or something, and then so finally the ground froze solid, but it's not happening as often as it used to. Certainly not as often as it did while I was a kid.

Michael: That's true. We do other things to mitigate that turf damage too. Things like AlturnaMATS that can help keep that bucket truck above without causing ruts and things like that.

Doug: Talk about over time, from your perspective as a professional, seeing these trees over the years that you've worked on or supervised the work on and a little bit of the feeling of like, "Man, that tree looks good," and working on that so many years ago, but boy, that was the right cut to make.

Michael: Yes. I'm very lucky that my sales territory and my office are both where I live. I spend a lot of time in this area looking at trees that I've worked on in the past or supervised the work on. Frankly, I probably drive my kids and my wife nuts because as we drive around town, I'm like, "I made that cut right there," or, "I pruned that tree over there."

It's a really nice feeling, especially when we see a lot of trees, in my opinion, being removed for all the wrong reasons around here. I take a lot of pride in preserving our canopy where there are numerous trees being brought down on a daily basis for really unjustifiable reasons and it really does give me a sense of pride that we're doing that work to keep these trees healthy and to keep them thriving for as long as possible.

Doug: Tell me about being in the car with the family when you're seeing trees that aren't pruned right. Are you driving them crazy about that too?

Michael: I am, especially those topped trees that are really, in my eyes, hideous. I think my oldest son is only four and a half, so he's just starting to learn some trees, but he already knows not to top a tree, which is something that I'm proud of.

Doug: [laughs] He's going to go to kindergarten and tell everybody not to top their trees.

Michael: That's right.

Doug: Highlight the importance of having a certified arborist come to your place to do this pruning. Again, I've told this story before in the podcast, but my son bought a house two years ago and the leaves were off the tree, and I looked at these two maples and somebody was coming once a year telling people, "You had to top it. You have to do this." Then I start walking the kids through the neighborhood and see this guy was working all through the neighborhood topping trees, topping maple trees. It's so important to have somebody who knows what they're doing come to your property. We love our trees and they need to be pruned the right way.

Michael: They do. I think there's a lot of people out there giving bad advice. I don't know if it's because they themselves don't know or if they don't care. I'm not really sure what the driving factor is there. Do your research on who you're having out to your property. Certified arborist, TCIA accredited company, all very big red flags if a company is not those. I don't know that I would-- I certainly wouldn't have anybody on my property assessing my trees if they weren't.

What I do is free. Having me out to look at your trees is free. I don't charge you for the advice. I think one of the biggest things I try to convey to my clients and to get them to pass on to their neighbors and friends is even if you don't have any work done, just get an arborist out there to help you identify the trees that you have in your yard. I think we could have lost a lot less ash trees from emerald ash borer if people just knew they had ash trees. I think there is a huge benefit to getting a certified arborist out just to do a walk around with you if nothing else.

Doug: I feel so lucky to have my local arborist here coming at least once a year. Again, I'm always talking about this on the podcast. I'm in a declining oak forest. Every time a tree goes, I try and put in something that's something different. I want diversity. When you're thinking about putting trees in, when you're talking about planting, and again, we've already covered this, right tree, right place. What are some things that you think of that might be a little bit off the beaten path that you really love?

Michael: I use Nyssa a lot, a black gum. I think that's a great tree. It's sort of underutilized. It's not huge. In my area, there are a ton of maples and things like that. I'm trying to branch out and get people to plant some other things. We're also getting into that, talking about diversity, especially when you're dealing with insect pests or things like that. It's very important.

There's a street around here called Ashford Road that was lined with ash trees, and it got wiped out, totally changed the face of that community by emerald ash borer. If there was a little bit more diversity there, we would have been able to sustain that a little bit better. Right tree, right spot is huge. Diversity is huge. We're getting into a time where I find more and more of the landscapes I go look at have the same plants. Crepe myrtle, cherry laurel, it's just repeated over and over and over again. I think if we can get back into some of the native stuff, do things that like you said, are a little bit more unique and not in every one of your neighbor's yards, you're setting yourself up for success.

Doug: There's something about growing that unique plant, whether it's a stewardia tree or a black gum or American hornbeam. There's just something about, I guess when you first start gardening or working on your landscape, you're like, you're just glad when the stuff lives. Then after that, it's like, "I want to grow something that not everybody else has."

Michael: Yes. I think garden centers are a business too. Garden centers are going to sell what people buy and what people are putting in. It is very hard for a garden center to stock a perishable product that no one is buying. Going around your local garden centers is great, but I think you can get a lot more by going to a local garden and walking around. I'm very lucky that I live near Longwood Gardens. I'm about half an hour away. I go up there on a regular basis and take a walk through and you can really see some unique species that grow really well in this area but are not marketed like the standard cookie-cutter plant material that everybody has.

Doug: Longwood is just an amazing place, but I want you to also visit Chanticleer because that's one that's maybe 20 minutes from Longwood. That's one of my favorites. Nothing can compare to Longwood, but Chanticleer is like visiting someone's house, I think.

Michael: It's funny. We talked earlier about me going to WVU, and I studied horticulture in WVU and they told us one morning we had to wake up at 3:30 AM and get on a bus to drive five hours to Longwood Gardens and then walk around and get on a bus for another five hours to go back to West Virginia. I said, "You got to be kidding me. I live 15 minutes down the road. I'll just go see them while I'm home." It is, it's an exceptional place. You can get a lot of good ideas, see things in their natural state, how they should be grown free from those outside influences that really affect the way a tree or shrub looks.

Doug: Mike, before I let you go, I just want to know a little bit about what you get out of your job, about dealing with your clients over the years.

Michael: I've been in the green industry for my entire career. I started at 15 loading mulch at a garden center. I was lucky. My dad's best friend was the owner of an independent garden center. I was a bit of a rambunctious child, so my dad called him when I was 15 and said, "Tim, you got to give this boy a job." I started loading mulch. I didn't know a thing about plants. After unloading about 10,000 Hemerocallis, I started to learn the Latin names of these things. It really took off from there.

It's unique because the garden center I used to work at, and I did that, manage it for 12 or 13 years, is about a half mile from the office I'm sitting in right now. A lot of my clients overlap. I had clients there that now call me at Davey to come out and do property assessments for them. I've been working with these folks for a really long time. I know a lot about them outside of their gardens and things and just building those relationships and just being that guy that they feel comfortable calling and asking questions to help them along the way and managing their garden is really what I enjoy, Doug.

Doug: I'm going to leave it right there, Mike. That's great stuff. Thanks for all the great information. I'm sure we will talk again soon for another podcast. Thanks for joining me.

Michael: Absolutely. I appreciate it, Doug.

Doug: Tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees podcast from the Davey Tree Expert Company. I am your host Doug Oster and do me a big favor, subscribe to the podcast so you'll never miss a show. Have an idea for an episode or maybe a comment, send us an email at podcasts at Davey.com. That's P-O-D-C-A-S-T-S@D-A-V-E-Y.com. As always, we like to remind you on the Talking Trees podcast, trees are the answer.

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