Chris Ellwood from Davey's West Columbus office shares the best trees he recommends for your backyard. Whether you're looking for trees for sunny areas or wet spots in your yard, he has the answers! Chris also shares how to do a tree safety check before you head outside for the summer and when you should get a professional involved.
In this episode we cover:
To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code.
To learn more about conducting a tree safety check, read our blog, Summer Tree Care Checklist: 3 Steps to Tree Safety this Season.
To learn more about protecting yourself while in the yard, read our blog, Landscape Safety Tips Every Homeowner Should Know.
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Have topics you'd like us to cover on the podcast? Email us at podcasts@davey.com. We want to hear from you!
Chris Ellwood from Davey's West Columbus office shares the best trees he recommends for your backyard. Whether you're looking for trees for sunny areas or wet spots in your yard, he has the answers! Chris also shares how to do a tree safety check before you head outside for the summer and when you should get a professional involved.
In this episode we cover:
To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code.
To learn more about conducting a tree safety check, read our blog, Summer Tree Care Checklist: 3 Steps to Tree Safety this Season.
To learn more about protecting yourself while in the yard, read our blog, Landscape Safety Tips Every Homeowner Should Know.
Connect with Davey Tree on social media:
Twitter: @DaveyTree
Facebook: @DaveyTree
Instagram: @daveytree
YouTube: The Davey Tree Expert Company
LinkedIn: The Davey Tree Expert Company
Have topics you'd like us to cover on the podcast? Email us at podcasts@davey.com. We want to hear from you!
Doug Oster: Welcome to the Davey Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees. I'm your host, Doug Oster. Each episode showcases one of Davey's certified arborists sharing advice with everyone about caring for your trees and landscapes. We'll talk about everything from introduced pests, seasonal tree care, deer damage, how to make your trees thrive, and much, much more. Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here's the Talking Trees Podcast, we know trees are the answer. This week I'm joined by Chris Ellwood. He's a district manager for the Davey Tree Expert Company based in Columbus, Ohio. Welcome to the show, Chris.
Chris Ellwood: Thanks for having me.
Doug: Talking all about best backyard trees, safety checks before we get out into the summer garden. When I throw it at you as if I'm a customer and I just say, "Hey, what do you think are the best backyard trees?" What do you answer with?
Chris: I say a tree I planted 10 years ago. No, I'm kidding.
[laughter]
Chris: I tell the client that it's species and site specific. I think that's a pretty cut and dry answer for any arborist, really. For example, considering things like shade, sun, what the soil moisture is. I live on a wet area, so if I plant a dry species, like a white oak, quercus alba, for example, there's a decent chance of suffocating the root system and killing the tree or it not just doing as well or vigorous in that area as a wetter species like bur oak or swamp white oak would.
Doug: When we think of a wet area, I guess a wet area can have full sun, right? Would a wet area mostly be shady or it just depends on the site?
Chris: Yes to all of the above. The amount of sunlight is separate from what the soil moisture is going to be like. You can think of a wetland. There are going to be very sunny spots and very shady spots depending on what the area's like. Using my residence as an example, I live on an older farm. There's not very many trees at all, so it's pretty much full sun all the time. Anything shade related, I have to hide or tuck in near my house. For clients a lot of the times, you'll have people who come to you and say I want to put a dogwood right in the middle because it's beautiful. Well, that might be the wrong decision because dogwood is an understory species. Maybe something like a magnolia that's still going to stay small or medium-sized and not burn up like a dogwood tree would out in the open.
Doug: Yes, and we see dogwoods out like that all the time. They seem to survive, but they're never going to be happy out there, and so I guess that's the lesson of right tree right place, which I've learned by hosting this podcast. Let's just stick with that wet area. Give me some other suggestions, whether it's sunny or shady for an area that might be a little low, that might be a little wetter than up high on a hill, or where it's nice and dry.
Chris: Sure. Something else that's important to consider is the adjacency to the house. We typically tend to classify trees in three size classes, small, medium, and large, like a cup of coffee. Small ones are typically staying under 30 feet, and this is at maturity. Medium-sized trees are getting between 30 and 60 and larger trees are getting, at mature height, above 60 feet. My backyard, for example, I'm probably going to plant some American yellow wood. They do decent in an area like that.
It's going to be full sun and they're in your medium size, so they're only going to get between 30 and 60 feet tall. I don't know if I want a 80-foot oak tree right next to my house. Although, some of the tree species bur oak, swamp white oak, as the name implies, willow oak, and I know I'm just listing off oaks here, essentially. Black tupelo or black gum, that's a really, really awesome tree for a wet area, at least in central Ohio. It's a native wetland tree, a beautiful red fall color.
Doug: Let me stop you there. Let me stop you there because I have heard so much good about black gums, especially for that fall color, but what else besides the fall color do you like about that? Did you say that was a native?
Chris: Yes, that's a native, at least in central Ohio. Go to any park with a wetland, you're probably going to find some black gum trees. What else I like about that tree, it's not very messy. All trees have seeds, of course, but there's some that are a little dirtier than others. Birch, which do okay in wet soils, they don't do good around-- If I could make a comment to steer people from any trees who are listening, I would probably steer them away from red maple, and I would probably steer them away from river birch as well.
Doug: Tell me about the yellowwood. Tell me about that variety.
Chris: The yellowwood, it's smaller. Some people call it a hop tree. It is native to Ohio as well. It's nothing fancy. It has [unintelligible 00:05:23] shaped leaves, kind of hard to describe this very [unintelligible 00:05:26].
Doug: When you say hop tree, now I think I know what it is because I think I've seen them next to the lake. Is that what it looks like? Does the flower look like hops?
Chris: Yes.
Doug: Okay. As a fisherman I can tell you, I lost a lure in a hop tree, which I now know is a yellowwood. That's a cool tree. No wonder it's next to the lake.
Chris: Yes. That's a good one. Then you can get into, for wetter, typically maples do pretty well in wet areas too. Sugar maple, again, I would try and steer people away from red maple. Gets a phenomenon called frost crack. Have you guys discussed frost crack on the podcast?
Doug: Yes.
Chris: In length, probably.
Doug: Yes, and that tree came up, for sure.
Chris: Yes, absolutely, but they make some neat cultivar maples, miyabei maple, hedge maple. What are a couple of the others? Trident maple. Paperbark maple is super cool, and that's a smaller-sized species. That's only going to get 15 or 30 feet tall. Paperbark maple, the bark exfoliates quite centrically.
Doug: I have a little one I put in a few years ago. It's a slow grower, but I've always wanted one because of that beautiful bark.
Chris: The ones you have at your house, are they in wet areas or are they dry areas?
Doug: It's down in a lower area, but it's relatively dappled sun. It's not full shade but dappled sun but moist. Tell me if I need to move it now because if I wait two or three more years, I don't think I'm going to be able to get it out of there.
Chris: You can always hire a Davey Tree and they'll bring a tree spade and move it for you. Right?
Doug: Oh, you don't have to tell me that. Davey Tree is here all the time, brother.
[laughter]
Doug: I live in an oak forest, so I'm keeping those guys from Davey busy.
Chris: Yes. If you have a remnant forest and that's a good point that you've alluded to, if you have a native forest in or around your property, like all my neighbors have really nice forests. I'm very jealous. Typically those trees that are in that forest would probably do well for your backyard as well. If you do live next to a forest or a park, go take a walk and see what looks like it's doing well. What looks healthy, what kind of roots they have? For wet areas too, we could think of dawn redwood or bald cypress, which are fantastic. Really cool trees, but a lot of people don't like the bald cypress. because they have the knees.
Doug: Yes. I've got a dawn redwood that I inherited when I moved in here, and I've talked about it before in the podcast. Probably my favorite tree on the property. If you could talk a little bit about dawn redwoods and why you love them.
Chris: I think I like dawn redwood because of their form. They're straight as an arrow. They have beautiful scaffold branches. If you want to be mean as an arborist, you can play tricks on people saying that it's dead when it's just a deciduous conifer.
Doug: Right. [laughs]
Chris: You might have to fact-check me on this one, but I believe dawn redwood was thought to be extinct, but then the grove was found in China maybe over a hundred years ago or in Asia somewhere.
Doug: You got it. It was found in a valley in China. My understanding is during World War II. That's the story I heard.
Chris: Yes, and brought them back in there. They do great in central Ohio. The only issues I see associated with them locally are squirrels love the bark. They will peel the bark off the main stem in its entirety.
Doug: Yes. I told a story earlier in another episode where because of those branches, when we first moved in, I walked out in the backyard and my kid was 50 feet up into the dawn redwood.
[laughs]
Doug: Well, man, that's a lot of trees just for the wet. Let's get out into the dry. Let's get out into the sun and talk about a couple of other of your favorites, and then we'll get into a little bit about safety.
Chris: I really like white oak. I think white oak is underappreciated. Not super-fancy fall color, but just a hardy really big cool tree with a really unique leaf. I believe that the International Society of Arboriculture, I believe their logo is actually a white oak leaf.
Doug: I feel like such an idiot because I've got all these oaks out there, but I don't know the difference between a red or a white. I've got to get it together and figure this out. Now they're leafing out. I've got to know what's in there, and you are inspiring me to get it together. [chuckles] What else is on your list? A white oak, that sounds great.
Chris: I will tell you that the oaks are best identified by acorn cap. A lot of good botanists can use the cap of the acorn to discern what it is. [crosstalk] good, and so far as you can find them and they're not disintegrating, but other urban trees that I really like, ginkgo does very well. Male only. When you get the female variety you get the seeds that end up smelling like dog poop. Kentucky coffee tree is another underappreciated one.
Doug: Talk about that one because that's one I've also heard about just at the nurseries and stuff. Every once in a while I'll see a nursery person and say, "What is that?" and they're, "Oh, this is a Kentucky coffee tree. You should grow this." Tell me about that one.
Chris: If it's a Kentucky coffee tree it has very few branches, and it doesn't look like anything at all really. I know that's a mean description, but when someone says, "What is that?" "Oh, it's a Kentucky coffee tree." A lot of people walk past it, I think. That is in the wetter species too. I know we're trying to move to the dryer. I would be remiss, too, and I'm going to switch gear and I apologize. Sweet gum tree. Most people hate the spikey balls. Sweet gum tree for your full-sun, slightly wetter soils is absolutely phenomenal.
The fall color of a sweet gum, I think, is second to none. The way the leaves on any sweet gum-- I have a sweet gum in my backyard. When the fall color comes, the inside of the tree is yellow and there's a gradient of color that exists to dark purple. It goes through red and dark purple toward the end of the leaves. I know I switched gears. I apologize.
Doug: I'm glad you did because when we talk about black gum, a lot of people choose that black gum because it doesn't have those type of seeds. Tell me about how you feel about those seeds. Talk about them. I have one other gardening friend who actually loves those big seeds. He thinks they're the coolest thing, but most people are just like, "I've been sweeping them up the driveway for 10 years. I can't stand it." Talk about them, and how do you deal with them? You just like them, it's cool, or what?
Chris: The sweet gum balls, the seeds, they don't bug me at all. I have a mulching mower. They become part of my landscape. They get mulched. I never rake them. I never rake leaves. The important thing you can do for your lawn and your soil health is use a mulching mower, or if someone mows for you, ask if they have a mulching mower. Mulch all that stuff up. It goes back into the soil. It's part of the cycle, or you can tell clients that their children need to toughen up their feet and just walk over the sweet gum balls, and they'll get over it. [laughs]
Doug: I like that. I love that tree, but every time I bring it up I hear from the guy who's sweeping them off the driveway. I love your idea of just running the mower over, and no raking leaves. Brother, we're on the same page there.
[laughter]
Chris: Moving out, though, into the dryer areas. Your oaks, your maples, your hackberry. Hackberry is, I think, one that's overlooked. A lot of your fence row trees in dry areas. I live in a farming community. The trees you're going to see on old fence rows are going to be mulberry as well as hackberry. People classify them as garbage trees. Hackberry has come up. I'm talking about celtis occidentalis. Certain cultivars of that species are really, really cool. They have pretty good fall color. Not a very messy tree.
Tend to break during storms, but at least in central Ohio, talk about a native tree that can take a beating and it's not going to really affect the tree's health very much. They're not very needy. Your oaks, your maples are a little more needy, in my opinion. When I say needy, I mean looking after, care, maintaining good soil health, things like that.
Doug: Yes. I don't know a hackberry though, so tell me a little bit about it. Obviously, it's a tough native, but how would I recognize one, or would I?
Chris: I don't think you would. Walk by any fence row. They're part of the Elm family, so the bottom of the leaf, it's not symmetrical. It's a little asymmetrical, looks like an elm leaf, but they've been here for a while. They're here to stay and that's a tree that can take a beating. In a native setting, they have a really cool branching structure like black walnut, how black walnut the branching structure becomes wider spread with respect to time. Same for hackberry.
Some of the biggest hackberries you'll find in slightly dump areas too. I lied to you. I said we're going to gravitate toward dryer species. Most people would walk by a hackberry and not give it a second look.
Doug: Is it something you'd put into somebody's landscape if it was the right place?
Chris: I would if it was an okay distance from the house, and if it was a cultivar. I don't know if I'd plant a native hackberry for a client unless they were looking for that native touch.
Doug: Okay. Before we move to safety, is there anything else we should talk about because you've got a long list there of some really awesome plants?
Chris: I think the most important thing to consider when selecting a tree, and I don't mean to be harsh on landscape architects, they have a magnificent eye of what's going to look good. I don't have that eye, but at least at our local office we focus more on longevity and practicality in the landscape. Call us realists if you want to, but I'd rather plant something that I know is going to be there in 50 years than plant something that is going to grow too large for the site, or not match the site characteristics as well.
The best thing that anyone interested could really do, and this is just a good starting point, always consult an industry professional. Call Davy. Part of my job is going out, and people are surprised we give free estimates. To me that that's laughable because someone's saying come to my property and talk about trees. No problem. I'll do it on a weekend if you want. I don't care. I could do it all the time, but if you visit the Arbor Day Foundation and internet search, "Tree wizard."
The one I'm looking at right now is Best Tree Finder: Tree Wizard. It's like a little quiz you take of your site for your house. What's your plant hardiness zone. What type of sun exposure, what type of soil? Sand, silt, loam, clay, whatever it is. How wet is the soil? How dry is the soil? Then it gives you based on how high or how big or flowers or non flowers, there's always interesting inputs you can put into this quiz. It spits out a really good starting point for trees to look for. Does shrubs too. Does evergreens. It's fantastic.
Doug: You know, Chris, when we go back to the free estimate thing, every time that I tell somebody-- I get questions every day that I can't answer about the landscape. Even if they send me a picture of their tree, and when I tell them, "Call my friends at Davy. They'll actually come to your property for free. A certified arborist will come to your property for free, and look at the problem and not charge you anything and tell you what's going to happen, or if they need to come back," and people are still astounded by that.
Chris: Yes. I think that's part of our business model at least. That's how I'd want to be treated. Treat people how you want to be treated. That's pretty intuitive.
Doug: Let's get into some safety.
Chris: Okay.
Doug: All right. Let's just use me as an example, and that way I get some free advice. Looking up in a case like me where I've got big oaks and hickories and sassafras and maples pretty close to the house. This house has been here since 1939, so there are some mature specimens there. What should I be looking for this time of the year?
Chris: Well, I'm going to come visit now because I really like sassafras. That's a really, really cool tree species.
Doug: I love my sassafras. Again, that fall color is just amazing. I just love it.
Chris: That's an easy one most people miss, as well. They like more acidic soil than not. For a lot of the species you've described, especially your oaks and your hickories, they're really good at holding on to big dead limbs. The pruning regime we prescribe for most clients is between three and five years. Again, it depends on the specific situation, specific tree, but the most obvious thing, especially when leaves are starting to come out, if there's leaves on it, it's probably alive. If they're not, it's probably dead. If it's a five-inch diameter, 35-foot-long oak limb right over your children's play set, you should probably call someone.
Doug: Yes. I think, even in my situation I'm very cognizant of what's going on here. I am looking up, but you do get lulled into a sense of false security with these trees that are always here, and then one day you get a storm and you hear something out there and you're like, "Oh, no." I do look up and try and make sure that everything's leafing out. If it's not, you know who I'm calling [crosstalk]
Chris: I'm sorry to cut you off. Another part of that is putting your trees, if you do have a bunch of mature trees or even if they're not mature, on some sort of pruning cycle, say again, every three to five years because when storms do come through and your tree is pruned properly, it lowers the risk of that breakage. Especially, as it pertains to over-extended limbs over a house, whether it's a subordinating cut and some things cut back to a different leader that's going to take on that apical role. That's part of what we recommend. That's not anything the client can do, but if you look up and say, "That tree looks thicker than I remember. When was it last pruned?" In my experience, and this took me about two or three years to learn, most clients are very wrong in remembering when their trees were last pruned. "That was pruned a few years ago, three years ago, I think," and it's seven years ago so they're long overdue.
Doug: I know that. Yes. I was trying to think today when I moved an azalea, and I was thinking to myself, "I think it was three or four years ago," and I went back and looked it was nine years ago.
Chris: Other good safety ones are tree lean and soil heaving. I'll go over both relatively briefly. Lean is exactly what it sounds. Sometimes we have clients document, "I took a photo on June 15th of this year and then do the exact same thing next year, and that tree looks like it's moved to me or it's leaning." On certain occasions, I have taken a clinometer out, which just measures tree lean by angle. You just put it on there and get the angle of lean.
I said, "Listen, here's the number. It's 87 degrees. We're going to check again next year. Estimates are free. Always love talking about trees for free. No big deal. If we go back out and it's moved by 2 to 5 degrees, we're cutting it down because the whole thing is shifting and it's a 120-foot oak tree that's about to eat your neighbor's house." That's one way too.
Then the soil heave which you mostly see in shallow-rooted species, silver maple, spruce, especially blue spruce. I have a client who calls me maybe twice a year just to come and check out trees. It gives them peace of mind. One of the things I've left this client with is, "Check the root system of your tree, about 10 feet out from the base depending on the size of the tree. If it looks like a pitcher's mound in baseball and it didn't look like that two weeks ago, that's a obvious physical sign that the roots have started to sever and come out."
I had a client once who had, I think, six blue spruce all in a row and called me after a bad wind event. The next day was still windy, seeing if these needed to come down, if the trees needed to be cut down. It was neat because I never got to see this in person. I actually recorded a video, sent it to all my friends, family members, anyone interested in trees where this patch of soil that was about 15 by 15 feet was just heaving up about 16 inches every single time the wind would come through. It had already started to put a hole in his neighbor's roof. I said, "Yes, sir. These need to go away tomorrow." [chuckles]
Doug: [laughs] All right, Chris. Thanks so much. What great information and again, I'm so happy that I've found out what the name of the tree is that my fishing lure got stuck in.
Chris: Yes, absolutely. [chuckles]
Doug: All right. Thanks, Chris.
Chris: All right. Thanks for having me.
Doug: Tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees Podcast from The Davey Tree Expert Company. I'm your host Doug Oster. Get ready because next week, it's 10 mistakes homeowners make with their trees. Our expert will run down the list, and as always, we like to remind you on the Talking Trees Podcast, trees are the answer.
[music]
[00:24:08] [END OF AUDIO]