Brian Sieber, district manager from Davey’s Cincinnati, office talks about over and under watering trees, stopping transplant shock, fall planting and his favorite trees.
In this episode we cover:
To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code.
To learn more about the signs of over and underwatered trees, read our blog, Signs of Underwatering Trees or Overwatering Trees.
To learn more about helping trees recover from transplant shock, read our blog, Helping Trees Recover from Transplant Shock.
To learn more about fall tree planting, read our blog, Fall Tree Care Checklist: Seasonal Tips.
Connect with Davey Tree on social media:
Twitter: @DaveyTree
Facebook: @DaveyTree
Instagram: @daveytree
YouTube: The Davey Tree Expert Company
LinkedIn: The Davey Tree Expert Company
Have topics you'd like us to cover on the podcast? Email us at podcasts@davey.com. We want to hear from you!
Brian Sieber, district manager from Davey’s Cincinnati, office talks about over and under watering trees, stopping transplant shock, fall planting and his favorite trees.
In this episode we cover:
To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code.
To learn more about the signs of over and underwatered trees, read our blog, Signs of Underwatering Trees or Overwatering Trees.
To learn more about helping trees recover from transplant shock, read our blog, Helping Trees Recover from Transplant Shock.
To learn more about fall tree planting, read our blog, Fall Tree Care Checklist: Seasonal Tips.
Connect with Davey Tree on social media:
Twitter: @DaveyTree
Facebook: @DaveyTree
Instagram: @daveytree
YouTube: The Davey Tree Expert Company
LinkedIn: The Davey Tree Expert Company
Have topics you'd like us to cover on the podcast? Email us at podcasts@davey.com. We want to hear from you!
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Doug Oster: Welcome to the Davey Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees. I'm your host, Doug Oster. Each week, our expert arborists share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more. Tune in every Thursday to learn more, because here at the Talking Trees podcast, we know trees are the answer. This week, again, I'm joined by Brian Sieber. He's a district manager at the Cincinnati office for the Davey Tree Expert Company. Good morning, Brian. How are you?
Brian Sieber: Good morning, Doug. How are you today?
Doug: I'm doing good. What's the weather been like here at the start of September for you guys down in Cincinnati?
Brian: Oh, today has been amazing. We've had a huge drop-off in temperature, so we're looking at temperature highs in the 70s, lows in the 50s and 60s. Gorgeous.
Doug: How was your season in general? How would you characterize it?
Brian: Hot and droughty. I think, like a lot of the nation, I think we were also victim to a lot of lack of rain during some key points in the summertime.
Doug: That leads me to my first question, talking about underwatering and overwatering. Certainly, a drought condition is underwatering. Tell me about looking at a tree that's underwatered. How do you know for sure that it's not getting what it needs?
Brian: A lot of the times, the trees that are underwater, they almost look like the water isn't making it from the ground all the way up to the ends of the leaves. Usually, whenever I'm looking at a plant and I'm suspecting may be underwatered and I'm looking at the tips of the leaves to see if they're burned or scorched, almost like the heat is just too much and it's setting the leaf on fire.
Doug: does this pertain to a really big tree or a really big tree can handle this? Is this more for a medium-sized, small tree? What do you think?
Brian: Obviously, trees that have a less developed or a smaller root system or less in size are a little more prone to drought-like conditions or having a lack of water, but it can affect any number of trees. I've seen it in large trees just as much as I've seen it in smaller trees. The signs are a little different between the two, but they're there.
Doug: When do you decide that the tree needs water? Regardless of size, when do you look at a tree and say, "All right, I finally have to do it and there's no rain in the forecast. I'm going to get water on this tree. It's driving me crazy."
Brian: A lot of the times, if you wait until the watering is absolutely necessary for the tree, a lot of the times you run into an issue where it does get some of that drought stress or strain that's applied to it. I usually try to get all my clients and most of the community behind us when I tell them, "Let's start in May," and start looking at watering for the tree in May, June, July, and August and really focus in on those four months. That might be maybe try to provide the tree with an inch worth of water if you can, maybe two inches. If Mother Nature supplements us in there every now and again, then good for her. The tree is not going to complain too much. Prevention, an ounce of prevention goes a long way.
Doug: Since we are right at our peak of planting season, starting in September, just talk a little bit about the importance of keeping that young tree watered even into next year.
Brian: Oh, my gosh. You should water all your trees in general. If they're landscaped ornamental trees or ones that you can feasibly get away with watering, you do it. Those young trees or those newly planted trees have such a confined root area. It's not very big. You can imagine it if you're planting, whether it was wrapped in burlap or if it was in a container, that confined root area. It's subject to a lot of stresses because it doesn't have that big expansive root area like other trees do to pull water from the soil layer. It only has that little spot, and that little spot dries out relatively quickly.
It's a lot more temperamental. A lot of clients that I have go through, and they'll begin watering those. They'll either do it manually with a watering hose or a bucket, or they'll use those bags that attach to the base of the tree or near the base of the tree and have a more passive watering that way.
Doug: How about the other side of the coin? How about overwatering? Do you see much of that?
Brian: We touched a little bit on those new plants that are getting into the ground and how they might have that confined root system. I see overwatering along the lines pretty often with new plant installation. What tends to happen is because those plants have a pretty small confined root area, people go out there and they water and they water and they water, hoping that the tree will react to it or the plant will react to it. What ends up happening a lot of the times is they start to see the other end of the symptoms that we're going to talk about, the symptoms of overwatering.
They assume that those symptoms are more in line with underwatering, and they try to correct it with extra water, when in fact all they need to do is turn off the faucet at that point.
Doug: When you do look at a tree, how do you tell if it's overwatered or underwatered?
Brian: A lot of the times, when I see let's say underwatering, for example, I'm looking at the leaf tips or the leaf tips of the tree. If they look singed on the very tip line, that means the water isn't making it from the roots all the way up to those tips of the leaflets. On the other end of that, overwatering, I see a lot of the times low branches get drowned out. They get droopy and they cup and curl towards the base, and they start to defoliate because they have too much water associated with them. They'll maintain a greenness maybe or a yellowness to them, but the low branches get affected the worst because they're closest to the water source.
Doug: Both as bad for the tree, or is one worse than the other?
Brian: I always felt like overwatering was worse for the plant. A lot of the times, that can cause an overall detrimental effect to the plant that hurts it for a longer period of time. Whereas underwatering, I felt like a tree can recover from it if you don't let it get too far away.
Doug: Since we are discussing prime planting season, let's talk a little bit about transplant shock, about what happens to that poor tree when it goes into the ground and is like, "Uh."
Brian: It must be horribly traumatic for a new tree. There it is out on the nursery or out on the farm, wherever you're getting the plant from--
Doug: Being nicely watered and taken care of and mulched.
Brian: Pristine environment. Whatever they can do to encourage the most amount of growth in that plant to really make it excel. That's what they're doing on those places. Then they come in in a really evasive way, and they dig out the root system. They cut about a third of the root system off in some cases, and they either burlap it up or they pop it into a container, and then they put it out in not always the greatest area in order for it to be viewed and then sold. A lot of the times when you're getting these plants from a nursery, they're on their way to getting that transplant shock that you're talking about.
You've got to help the plant recover after it's stuck in the ground, and you focus in on watering and fertilization. Whatever you can do to reestablish that root system so that it can better support the tree part that's above the ground.
Doug: Of course, having as many roots as possible is certainly going to help the tree. Whether it's balled and burlapped or out of a container, could you just go through the best way to plant these trees so that there isn't that shock?
Brian: Ideally, in the nursery or the farm or wherever you're getting it from, like you said, you want to obtain as much root material, root mass as possible. What we're looking for on tree plant installation is to go through, and no matter what that root ball size is or that container size is, we're going to aim for a hole that's about 1 1⁄3 to 1 2⁄3 the size of the root ball. You're going to plant that so that the root flare of the tree or the base of the tree is about at ground level, maybe just a hair above, and then you're going to backfill that area with a lot of fresh topsoil, peat moss, any type of adjuvant that you might want in there that's going to encourage additional root growth once that's in place.
You want to make sure the soil is soft enough to allow the roots to go through, so avoid stuff like hardened clay and rocky debris that's in there, but you want to make sure your soil composite has lots of opportunity for nitrogen and root expansion.
Doug: I think one of the problems with homeowners planting their own trees is that they don't go big enough with the planting hole. They skimp on that because it's hard work. Then also, from interviewing guys like you, Brian, that root flare, boy, that is key to getting a healthy planting, right?
Brian: Absolutely. One of the biggest mistakes I ever see homeowners make is they always typically plant the tree, usually, it's too deep into the ground. It's almost a really common occurrence. A lot of the times when people catch it, it's down the line. It's two or three years down the line when they see it. What ends up happening is when they get a container plant or a burlapped plant, when those are scooped up sometimes in the nursery, there's some excessive soil that's on the sides that plops down on top of the root flare of the tree.
When homeowners get them, they look at that
plant and they say, "Oh, I got to plant it where the soil line is on the plant," but the soil line isn't exactly where the root flare is. You really want to make sure you put that root zone, that root flare that comes out of there, on the right level. I've seen plants that are three, four, even five inches deep into the ground, and that hurts them in the long run.
Doug: Talk a little bit about that. What is that long-term prognosis for a tree that's planted too deep? What are the negatives there? What happens?
Brian: Tree roots and plant roots all like to be at a certain level in the soil in order to catch all the water and the nutrients that it might be looking for. When they're planted too deep, what ends up happening is they struggle. They struggle to get those nutrients and a lot of times the water that they need in order to survive. When they're planted too deep, they're a lot more prone to drought stress during times of drought. Then when they have excessive rainfall, they're drowning out because the root system is too deep.
They try to fix it, the plants do a lot of the times I see, and they put out these advantageous roots that are at the correct level later on down the line, but they're focusing all that energy towards rebuilding a root system that's at the proper depth. Because of that, you never see any growth on the top end of the tree whatsoever.
Doug: Are you like me when you get to this point in the season? Most of the big storms for us in the mid-Atlantic are over with. The temperatures are cooling. It is prime planting time. When you're planting a tree this time of the year, your success rate, I think, is superior than any other time in the year. At least it is for me as a regular homeowner.
Brian: I couldn't agree with you more, Doug. At this point in time during the season, as a regular homeowner that's living a busy lifestyle, this is the safest time for you to go in and plant. Mother Nature handles a lot of the workload for you. Cooler temperatures means that the ground stays a little more damp longer, so you get more water in there. The tree's not overly stressed because of the heat and humidity. It's getting leaf decomposition from the trees that are around it. There's a lot of plus sides going on this time of year. It's got the longest period now between the next year's summer stress to really work on establishing that root area.
Doug: Do you try and convince clients to wait if they can?
Brian: Oh, absolutely. Yes. You have to. It's not for everybody. A lot of the times during the summer season, you'll have a lot of clients that will want to see-- have summer projects, landscaping projects, whatever in their mind. They want to see those accomplished. They want to see them accomplished on their timeline. You really just have to sit down with those people and really relate to them all the pros and the cons of what that might be, and the fact that if you plant when it's 90 degrees outside, you'll probably be replacing a plant in less than a week in some cases.
Doug: Yes. I know. I hate to see it. I know sometimes it has to be done, but as a plant person, planting anything during that period of stress with that heat and not a lot of rain, it's just not a good idea.
Brian: It ends up being so much extra work for the homeowner. It's repetitive watering, soil amendments, all sorts of stuff.
Doug: Praying, crossing fingers. Everything you can do to get that tree. When we're planting them now, man, like you said, Mother Nature helps us out so much, and you might be able to find a deal at the nursery too, something that's been sitting around for a while, but they've kept good care of it, but it's just not moving. You might be able to find a cool tree cheap.
Brian: Oh, absolutely. This is definitely the time of year as-- as the year progresses on, this is the time of year where nurseries try to clear out as much stock as possible before the end of their fiscal year. Definitely keep your eye out and see what they have.
Doug: All right. Let me pick your brain about some cool trees that you like. I always love to ask arborists, and of course, we must preface this with right tree, right place, but when you do find the right place for some of your favorite trees, talk about a couple of your favorites that maybe don't get planted as much as you wish they would.
Brian: There's some that I see out there that I really like. I've been enthralled with a copper beech or the European beech tree. They've got a nice purpley leaf to them. In Southwest Ohio, where I'm at right now, a lot of people are looking for alternatives for Canadian cherry trees, which get black knot and some other diseases. That's a pretty tree that has a nice leaflet that maintains a nice colorful canopy. That one's not a bad one at all.
Doug: Anything else you're thinking of on your list?
Brian: I'm also a big fan of tupelo trees, especially this year going into fall. Tupelo trees maintain gorgeous color, and I'm always happy with those, especially if I'm thinking about fall-time trees that aren't super common.
Doug: That black tupelo just falls under the radar for some reason, but every other arborist I talk to, just about, brings that up because of its fall color. Explain what that tree looks like when it changes.
Brian: It's got this gorgeous dark red leaflet with hints of orange and yellow mixed in with them. It's absolutely amazing. Arborists like them. The trees aren't really prone to a lot of leaf disease or insect issues. They don't maintain overly dead canopies a lot of the time. They're a really nice tree.
Doug: Let's talk a little bit about your job. Talk about your relationship with your clients a little bit, if you don't mind. Tell me the good part. I ask this question a lot, about going, and we all prize our trees and being able to go there and tell them what the problem is and that it can be fixed. [chuckles]
Brian: Oh, my gosh. We're an industry that serves the residential homeowner, and there's not a day that goes by where people don't call us up with problems that need fixed. It could be a tree too close to the house, a privacy screen for a new subdivision that's coming in. It could be a brand new landscape that's coming up, and they're full sun, and they don't know what to do about it. It could be trees that are just encroaching in areas that they don't have to, or illness that's attacking ashes, oaks, or elms. There's nothing more satisfying than to go out and meet with clients, do the research, figure out what their problem is, and you're right, Doug.
Looking at it and going, "This is something that has a fix to it." You thought there wasn't a fix with it. We don't have to take the-- It doesn't end with tree removal or plant replacement. Sometimes it's just, you can work in a good cure for stuff, which is always great.
Doug: I'm going to leave it right there, Brian. That's good stuff. Thanks so much for the information, and keep planting, buddy, because that's what I'm going to be doing. This is the time.
Brian: I'm excited about it, Doug. Thank you very much.
Doug: All right. Thank you. I need to plant one of those black tupelo trees. I'm on the hunt for one. This fall, I'm doing it. Tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees podcast from the Davey Tree Expert Company. I am your host, Doug Oster, and next week we have a great show. We're talking to a couple of Davey experts who are using their climbing skills in competition. Do me a favor, subscribe to the podcast so you'll never miss an episode. As always, we like to remind you on the Talking Trees podcast, trees are the answer.
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