Lukas Suzano from Davey's Buffalo office talks about his favorite small trees for the landscape.
In this episode we cover:
To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code.
To learn more about deciding which tree to plant, read our blog, Guide on How to Choose a Tree to Plant: Planning and Selecting.
To learn more about small trees for small space landscaping, read our blog, Best Dwarf Trees for Small Space Landscaping (Flowering and More).
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Lukas Suzano from Davey's Buffalo office talks about his favorite small trees for the landscape.
In this episode we cover:
To find your local Davey office, check out our find a local office page to search by zip code.
To learn more about deciding which tree to plant, read our blog, Guide on How to Choose a Tree to Plant: Planning and Selecting.
To learn more about small trees for small space landscaping, read our blog, Best Dwarf Trees for Small Space Landscaping (Flowering and More).
Connect with Davey Tree on social media:
Twitter: @DaveyTree
Facebook: @DaveyTree
Instagram: @daveytree
YouTube: The Davey Tree Expert Company
LinkedIn: The Davey Tree Expert Company
Have topics you'd like us to cover on the podcast? Email us at podcasts@davey.com. We want to hear from you!
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Doug Oster: Welcome to the Davey Tree Expert Company's podcast, Talking Trees. I'm your host, Doug Oster. Each week, our expert arborists share advice on seasonal tree care, how to make your trees thrive, arborists' favorite trees, and much, much more. Tune in every Thursday to learn more because here at the Talking Trees podcast, we know trees are the answer. I'm joined this week by Lucas Suzano. He's an assistant district manager in the Buffalo, New York area, and we're talking all about small trees. Lucas, how do we define a small tree? That could be, in some cases, 30 feet, 40 feet tall, right?
Lucas: Yes, I guess that's a relative sort of reference. Some exactly would classify a small tree as something 15 feet in height or less, something that they can plant as an ornamental, or some people like to think of small trees as 30 to 40 feet. I guess it's just a matter of relation and what you're used to.
Doug: It seems, just from looking overall in the gardening world, that, in general, people are looking for smaller trees, shrubs to tuck in here and there. When you do get a client, and certainly, as long as I've been doing this podcast, I know, right tree, right place, that's a broken record for me, but when they're asking you, "Hey, I want to put in a small tree," talk a little bit about looking over the site and what kind of trees you have in mind.
Lucas: Yes, so that's definitely a good point. Getting the right tree for the right spot is essentially going to set you up for success or not. Determining what tree would be best suited for those sites, as well as what you're looking for as far as maybe aesthetics, or blooms, or fragrances are all things that you want to take into account. There's plenty of options out there, lots of varieties of trees, depending on what people would be looking for, as well as the zones that they would be best suited for. For instance, there's some small trees out there that do really well like American hornbeams, Japanese maples are very sought after for just their nice, elegant look, and you can get the different varieties of green or red leaf to add nice aesthetic touches to their landscapes.
Doug: School me a little bit about that American hornbeam. I put one in probably three years ago because I saw one at a public garden, and I loved the look of the wood itself. How big are we going to get there with an American hornbeam?
Lucas: Well, in time, and assuming that the tree stays healthy, which I imagine you'll do your due diligence to ensure, you'd probably be looking anywhere from 20 to 30 feet. I agree with you there, the bark on those trees are very neat, I do also like the aesthetics and smoothness of that bark, it's very unique.
Doug: I've lost a lot of oak trees in my forest, and so I'm trying to plant things to add some diversity. After my American hornbeam, what else comes to mind as far as a small tree for you?
Lucas: You can go some different roots if you wanted to get something flowering perhaps. You could go with some varieties of dogwood, even perhaps some crab apples.
Doug: When we're talking about dogwoods, I love native dogwoods, both the white and the pink, but somebody once told me, I asked them, "When's the best time to move a dogwood?" They said, "Never," because it's shallow rooted. Tell me a little bit about when you're thinking about putting a dogwood in, okay to plant in the spring, right?
Lucas: Sure, yes, it's okay to plant in the spring. Typically, like with the dogwoods, similar to that of like the Japanese maple, they can be a little bit more tender and require a little more finesse. If something like that had to happen, if you didn't get it right the first time, I would probably look at transplanting coming into fall or as the trees are starting to approach dormancy. It'd be a little bit less taxing on the trees.
Doug: Again, I think most people love Japanese maples, but eventually, some of them I've seen-- I know, in general, I'm guessing it's a slow grower. That's what I've heard over the years, but-
Lucas: Correct.
Doug: - I've seen some really big ones, like after 30 years, you can have a really nice size tree. Do you see them used a lot in the landscape?
Lucas: I do, especially in our area. A lot of people like them as smaller feature trees. Unfortunately, you do see some that are planted in full sun exposure, which isn't really the ideal setting for them, but unbeknownst to them, they just find a spot they think it looks good and run with it. That is a very prominent tree in the area. They do offer a very nice elegance at a slower growing capacity. You get to maintain a more constant feature in your landscape for a longer period of time.
Doug: That's good to know about where I'm supposed to plant it. Tell me a little bit about that. Not full sun, that's not the best spot for it. Where should I put it?
Lucas: Yes, you'd want to have a little bit of shade cover because a Japanese maple in full sun, you're always going to run into wilting of the leaves. It just can't handle full sun. Definitely want to plan accordingly so that we can put them in the best spot with a little bit of shade cover so they're not fully exposed.
Doug: There's like a million different types of Japanese maples I've seen out there. Do you have a certain one that you like to put in? I guess it depends on the situation.
Lucas: Yes, it typically depends on the situation. The most common one we use around here is the blood red Japanese maple. Very common and typical Japanese maple branch structure, a little bit more of a outgrowing canopy, so it'll have a lower, wider appearance as opposed to a more slender and vertical growth.
Doug: Over the last several weeks, crab apples have come up a lot. I am a big fan of crab apples. I've told listeners that I have this beautiful crab apple that a pine tree crushed and that my team from Davey Tree saved. It's right outside the kitchen window. I was just doing my dishes out there, Lucas, and waiting for that thing to bud out. I know they have fungal issues. Is that an issue in the Buffalo area too? We have that fungal issue problem here.
Lucas: Yes, it definitely is. We have a lot of issue with apple scab affecting our crab apples, a very, very prominent issue in our area. Fortunately, we have many customers and friends of clients that utilize our services to help maintain because they do require some attention and care so that we can help prevent further progression of the leaf disease.
Doug: Yes, that's something I'm going to have to deal with. I love a crab apple, actually, right when it's budding, right before it opens, there's that dark bud, and then it opens to that really beautiful pink. To me, it reminds me of the old schoolyard. We had a lot of crab apples always in these old schools from my era where the teacher would be speaking and I would be out looking out the window at the crab apples. Is there any special crab apple you guys are planting that you like better than any other one, or is it just a standard, here, stick a crab apple in?
Lucas: Yes, we don't have any go-tos as far as the crab apples. Most of them offer their own pleasantries and the different flowers, the different colors, the different shapes and sizes. There's just such a wonderful variety. It's very hard to choose one versus the other.
Doug: One thing I wanted to ask you about, because when I was thinking about this topic of small trees, I was wondering, can a small tree grow in a container, or is that a bad idea?
Lucas: In essence, yes, a small tree could grow in a container. The only problem is that it's going to be limited in its capacity, and essentially, it would only be able to last so long. If you were going to keep something in a container, I feel you're putting, essentially, a shortened lifespan on that tree. Because it doesn't have any room to grow and develop, it's going to be limited in its capacity to obtain necessary moisture, oxygen, nutrients, all the things that are fundamental to the vegetation sustaining itself.
Doug: All right, that makes sense. Here's the scenario in my garden. You're going to school me on this, too. [laughs]
Lucas: [chuckles] I'll do my best.
Doug: All right, I got a little Japanese maple in a container as the thriller in the middle.
Lucas: Okay.
Doug: Now, I know it can't stay there forever, and it's been there now for this is the second season. It made it through the winter.
Lucas: Okay.
Doug: Yes, and I'm always concerned about a tree in a container in the winter because you don't have those roots down in the ground where they're protected. Okay, this Japanese maple's made it. I love it. It's like a coral, maybe they call it coral bark. I'm not sure. It has red bark.
Lucas: Okay.
Doug: It's probably about three foot tall. This season, I want to continue to have it in the container, but then I think it's going to be ready, I want to put it into the ground in the fall. Your thoughts on that?
Lucas: I think that's a very good course of action. Once you do come time ready to do it, just ensuring that your planting practices are in check as far as the depth. When you get it out of that container, ensuring that you have that root flare exposed, and then you can get an adequate gauge as far as how deep you need to make the hole, making it wide enough to accommodate the space and be able to work around it.
Doug: All right. I want to pick your brain on just some of your favorite trees that don't get planted as often as they should be. Since you're working with trees day in and day out, are there any things that come to mind that don't get 70 feet tall that you have in your mind that say, "Boy, you know what? I'd love to put this in the corner over here. I'd love to put one over here"? Again, I know it's all about the site.
Lucas: Right. Well, going back to the beginning of our conversation, I feel like hornbeams aren't talked about nearly enough. They are a very gorgeous tree. They do not get too large as far as what I would deem large. The 20 to 30 feet I feel is very respectable for a lot of residential properties, not being overwhelming or overtaking some of these smaller yards. You put a tree in and potentially that ends up taking up the whole yard and you don't have any usable space anymore. The hornbeams are something that I would like to see more of. Then, I feel like dogwoods are more traditional in some landscapes but aren't really sought after as new planting ideas to revamp landscapes or to create new landscapes. Those are some more that I would like to see being actively planted.
Doug: I'm your client and I come to you and I say, "I want a Rose of Sharon to plant here." What do you tell me?
Lucas: [laughs] Well, if the Rose of Sharon-- It's just funny that you should say this because I actually just had that scenario yesterday [laughs] on one of my appointments. In that particular situation, the homeowner had done a lot of extensive research, had worked in an area where they sold vegetation. It might've been Home Depot or something of the sort. Obviously, the vegetation that she could select from was limited to that.
You would find it a nursery perhaps, but she had looked through a lot of different shrubs and things that she liked, and she sat on the Rose of Sharon. She was really adamant, talked about it for several minutes, and then asked me, "Do you think I should plant something else?" I'm like, "Well, honestly, from what you just told me, you really like the Rose of Sharon, and I feel like you have your heart set in it, and the location that you want to plant it in would be a reasonable spot. If that's what you really want, I don't want to waste all your weeks or months of research to give you another selection and sway you the other way. If that's what you really like, I'd say go with it. So long as it's going to be in a good spot and going to be set up to thrive." The best way to know because there's hundreds and thousands of varieties of plants, or shrubs, or small trees, the best thing to do is do your research.
If you can't find something online that you like, visit your local nursery. Walk through the aisles, see what piques your interest, and ask questions because most nurseries are going to have very knowledgeable staff that can help direct you one way or another.
Doug: Lucas, believe it or not, when I moved here 24 years ago, I actually brought a Rose of Sharon with me from my old garden, and people just think that is the craziest thing, but just let me explain real quick. Okay.
Lucas: Please do. [laughs]
Doug: When my kids were little, there was a Rose of Sharon that was right by the basketball hoop and it took a beating.
[laughter]
Doug: I just dug up a little one just to remind me of that period when my kids were playing basketball and they were young like that. That's why that Rose of Sharon has a special meaning to me. Let's talk a little bit about why people hate Rose of Sharon, especially just the normal variety that drops seeds everywhere.
Lucas: Right. There's pros and cons to them. One of the issues that we've been finding are they can be very quick growers, and depending on the season, their blooms can be affected to come out later than normal or earlier than normal. Last season specifically, with the environmental conditions we had, we had a lot of instances where Rose of Sharon had grown so much and the blooms became so heavy that they were just keeling over, and we were having a lot of Rose of Sharons sustaining damage. These people have had these shrubs on their properties for years, and now, a lot of them have been just destroyed based on just natural growth habits due to their adaptation to the environmental conditions. It's tough. In some instances, there's only so much that you can do within your control, and a lot of things are going to respond differently to the situation and you just got to do your best to nurse them back and keep them going if that's the pride and joy of your landscape or sentimental values such as the one that you took back.
Doug: Then, there's all those little babies everywhere. [laughs]
Lucas: Yes. [laughs]
Doug: You know what? Lucas, I actually, since I am-- I've fallen in love with Rose of Sharons because of these different reasons, I found one that's supposed to be sterile. It's called sugar tip, so we'll see.
Lucas: Interesting. Okay.
Doug: Double pink flowers with variegated foliage, but if it isn't sterile, I'm going to be in trouble. I'm going to have Rose of Sharon growing everywhere. Now, I want to talk to you a little bit about your job, about what you do, and how you got into it. What was your path to finding your way to what you're doing?
Lucas: Actually, it was by chance that an opening came up in this operation here in Buffalo, New York. At the time, I was looking for employment and ended up coming into our office for the opening of a lawn technician with no prior experience, but I like the idea of arboriculture and the idea of working outside, and got my foot in the door through lawn care and then slowly worked my way into the surgery side, working with tree crews, and just found a passion for that. I thought I was going to be doing that for many more years to come just because learning about trees, understanding trees, doing the technical work was just very fascinating to me. Again, working outdoors is just something that I think is a little overrated by some, or maybe that's a poor choice of words, just not really understood how much it can do for someone being exposed to the elements, being outside, not confined to a small space of an office, or a desk, or whatever the case may be, and just help develop a passion that frankly, I didn't even really know I had.
Doug: As somebody who grew up in Cleveland and since you're in Buffalo, I know that you can appreciate the break in the season, that spring is here. Talk a little bit about your relationship with your customers.
Lucas: As of right now, especially in the role that I am as assistant district manager, right now is the season of getting people-- well, contacting people again and getting things set up for the new season, doing a lot of site visits to see how previous programs have worked, or different opportunities that we've had on properties, how things are holding up with the conditions. Being in Western New York, this winter was pretty tough, had significant amounts of snow, and with that, its own set of problems with snow damage or frost damage on small or large trees, and just assessing properties so that we can make sure that with the weather breaking now that everything is held up as it should. If there's anything that needs to be addressed, coming up with the correct course of action so that they can set up the season on the right foot.
Doug: Before we got going, I told you that my local team from Davey was here yesterday doing work we had planned to do, getting to those oaks right at the end of the season here to get that done. Then, my certified arborist found a tree that was in decline that I didn't even know was in decline. It's a big tree and it's right over the garage. Even though I talk about this all the time on the podcast, let's finish off with just telling people how important it is to have this expert, to have this certified arborist coming out and looking around and finding these things so that they can be taken care of in a timely manner.
Lucas: That's a very good point. A lot of things that happen on a property is not common knowledge. Your average homeowner will know they need to mow the grass, they need to water in times of drought, how much or how little maybe is unknown. Then, you get into landscape shrubs or trees, even the turf, there's significant problems that can happen within the turf itself, and a lot of these things, to the untrained eye, will not seem as dire concerns. Having
a certified arborist come out to inspect a property, to do a walk-through with you just to help you learn and understand what is on your property. If you just have grass, there's things to know about that as well, but there's a lot that there is to be learned as far as shrubs or trees are concerned that, in the end, can help preserve, one, the health and vigor on your property, and two, potential safety. As you just mentioned, you didn't know this tree was in decline. What's to say the right condition comes up and without you knowing, you don't know how to be proactive to stop something detrimental from happening?
Doug: Well, that's the next job, is to get that big tree out of here, and so I'm going to be scheduling that. Lucas, that's great advice. I really appreciate your time. It was fun to talk about small trees. Thanks for all the information. Thanks for being on the show.
Lucas: Of course, Doug. It was a pleasure. Thank you so much.
Doug: If you are looking for a really cool Rose of Sharon that does not make lots of babies, check out that sugar tip. It's one of my favorites. Next week, we're going to talk about one of the most important aspects of tree care that's mulching the right way. Tune in every Thursday to the Talking Trees podcast from the Davey Tree Expert Company. I'm your host, Doug Oster. I'd love it if you would subscribe to the podcast. We're having fun, aren't we? As always, we'd like to remind you on the Talking Trees podcast, trees are the answer.
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[00:21:45] [END OF AUDIO]